Carigamers

Off Topic => Media => Showcase => Topic started by: Guru on September 22, 2003, 03:17:56 PM

Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Guru on September 22, 2003, 03:17:56 PM
I think it is time for the next AMV competetion.

Heres what I think should be some of the guidelines for the next AMV.

We will have a category called Ahead of the pack, where all contestants will be making an AMV of the EXACT same anime, and choosing one of a selection of songs.

A dance video section.

Lets Discuss and try and get something going                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Crixx_Creww on September 22, 2003, 03:42:00 PM
hmm, man have excellent idea dere boy                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Lovyan on September 23, 2003, 01:39:35 AM
Aha! That's upping the ante a little bit.
So about 4 videos? Like last time? How many was it again?
The compulsory one is cool...and a choice for others?
Or 2 compulsory?                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: TriniXaeno on September 23, 2003, 08:19:56 AM
AMVs!!!!!!!!!!!                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Anonymous on September 23, 2003, 08:39:24 AM
this going to be cool
guru has a good idea rel good idea                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SPK on September 23, 2003, 09:13:52 AM
Well of course, u know i goin up for being a judge again....

AMV downgrading marks to craw!!!!

Let's see allyuh ability...especially to [MH] Zero, he's been mouthing off quite a bit on GATT chat on me, so i wanna see his work for serious now...                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Lovyan on September 23, 2003, 10:24:11 AM
lol...he didn't have in the last competition? Or is this another Zero I'm thinking about?                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Guru on September 23, 2003, 07:14:09 PM
cool... keep it comming... we putting a vid max again? no more that 5 entries from one comeptitior?
Action / Adventure
Romance / Drama / Character potrayal
Comedy / Spoof
Dance / Lipsyncing
Ahead of the pack
****
Best Technical
Best Anime
Most Orginal Concept
Newbie with  potential award                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Shogun on September 23, 2003, 07:32:14 PM
Guru i love your idea! this it where the contestants can really show off thier skills!!! touya and I did sumthing similar to that, we both pick vampire hunter D bloodlust purposly and edited 2 different verions of it........... we let our friends judge..............

......................he won :(                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Shogun on September 23, 2003, 07:35:11 PM
eeehhh also i wouldn't mind holding onto my most original video title but......... i don't think i can top that sooooooooo yeah.......                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: crazy_samurai on September 23, 2003, 07:37:32 PM
more amvs!!!! yay...
cool.... hope to see some sam. x from shogun again                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Shogun on September 23, 2003, 07:44:18 PM
yeah i have 1 sam x up my sleve and then that will be it for sam x cuz i know ppl are sick to death of it.                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: crazy_samurai on September 23, 2003, 07:52:51 PM
yea... it kinda gettin old....
what about the golden boy?
anymore from ya?                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Shogun on September 23, 2003, 08:01:45 PM
nope! been there done that........ time to move on!

oh by the way are there gonna be any prizes this time or are we gonna just have to pat ourselvs on the back?                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Guru on September 23, 2003, 08:13:17 PM
lol ah feel yuh

what allyuh want for de must do anime?
Naruto??  Scryed?  Ghost in the shell Anime Complex?                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Shogun on September 23, 2003, 08:21:06 PM
i think you should get the judges to decide!
but you will need to organize a panel of judges first!!                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: crazy_samurai on September 23, 2003, 08:59:56 PM
doh choose spk again!!!                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Crixx_Creww on September 23, 2003, 09:20:58 PM
what excellent timing too

meteora released, staind released
evanessence mashin up

nice ness all round                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Zero on September 24, 2003, 07:43:21 AM
It has begun.....
The fourth world war has begun allyuh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
....no..wait thats..not right....... umm oh yeah! The 2nd AMV competition.....darn it...i only have 2 new vids and they suck!!!
gotta make more but i'm having computer problems!!!!!

spk show mercy!!!                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: ARCH_ANGEL on September 24, 2003, 07:49:11 PM
First  of all there was never a third world war man lol... But i think i will enter this Compe... Please dont laugh and be honest with my lack of talent and skill                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Zero on September 24, 2003, 10:03:24 PM
Try your best!

I will be nothing but a loser..(again) for this competition                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Shogun on September 24, 2003, 11:24:42 PM
krap man ya'll makin me depressed!                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Zero on September 24, 2003, 11:35:56 PM
What?
who making you depressed :?:                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: crazy_samurai on September 24, 2003, 11:59:28 PM
arch entering this?
lol, i have to see his AMV                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Zero on September 25, 2003, 08:46:04 AM
Lets All Enter!!!!!!!
...........or not....
I was gonna start on a video last night but i fell asleep :(  :(
Gotta make that video!!!!
Fasttttt                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SPK on September 25, 2003, 09:28:34 AM
lol...

I will have mercy upon the worthy titles....else salt!!!

And Samurai, who u feel u is to say that I shouldn't be a judge???:P                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SIRblackice on September 25, 2003, 11:09:03 AM
i now gettin into this but what is a good program to use when makin amv's ???                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SIRblackice on September 25, 2003, 11:11:09 AM
oh yea how are these amv judged??                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Warlock on September 25, 2003, 11:19:17 AM
this seems cool, but still what are the rules... date....etc                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SHiZZ on September 25, 2003, 11:33:41 AM
I will judge for this. I still for the love of me never managed to open meh divx files in Premiere and yes I do knnow that that sux. The solutions given did not werk at all. So bleh for me.                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Fraet on September 25, 2003, 12:33:52 PM
Will there be any prizes? Jus reconition? AMV's showcased on the site?                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: MadCat on September 25, 2003, 12:37:28 PM
i go enter but what b the prizes again                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Evangelion_01 on September 25, 2003, 01:06:55 PM
Well I expecting some good stuff as usual. This is a GATT event to LOOK FORWARD to ^^                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Zero on September 25, 2003, 01:27:25 PM
I need the power
the power to make ah kickarse amv TONIGHT!!!!!!!!
even if it kills me!
i will show you all
Muahahahahahhahaha!!!!! :evil:  :twisted:  :twisted:                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: crazy_samurai on September 25, 2003, 01:50:07 PM
Quote
lol...

I will have mercy upon the worthy titles....else salt!!!

And Samurai, who u feel u is to say that I shouldn't be a judge???:P

doh make me embarass u on the forums eh :twak:                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SPK on September 25, 2003, 07:03:22 PM
lol...as if you can do that...

Well we have 2 judges....how many judges on this panel this time around Shiz, 4 like last time???                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: PapaSmurf on September 25, 2003, 10:06:29 PM
i think we should have 5 judges to make it even.

I would like to volunteer for the post. I have helped to edit, film, conceptualize and evaluate AMV's for 2 of the 3 top AMV artists in T&T. I possessed a collection of over 200 amv's (all from  animemusicvideoes.org) before I stumbled across the ultimate AMV and felt the need to delete them all. I can judge according to a rating system or of my own volition. And I serve as a great equalizer for those judges who like to pelt marks.                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Zero on September 26, 2003, 09:06:12 AM
I Agree! :guitar:  :guitar:
Pick Smurf!                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Shogun on September 26, 2003, 10:48:44 AM
yeah i second that nomination

i also nominate lovyan. as an artist i know her judgment will be good.


p.s. zero!!! take you time!! you have a lot of time to edit your video, these are the planing stages of the AMVC, we don't even have a date yet. so take your time! don't rush tha brush!! :P                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Fraet on September 26, 2003, 10:57:23 AM
Who decides what animes to choose from? Will it be an any amv contest?                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Shogun on September 26, 2003, 11:21:05 AM
you submit your own amvs, and they will be catogorized and judged but the catogory they are in.                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SPK on September 26, 2003, 11:24:32 AM
Shiz we go have to make a judges meeting once we finalize the judges panel...

Who will be the head judge BTW?                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Zero on September 26, 2003, 10:39:41 PM
Quote
Shiz we go have to make a judges meeting once we finalize the judges panel...

Who will be the head judge BTW?


Can i be the head judge? :lol:

Yeah and i'm gonna take my time shogun!
but i'm getting sick of editing!!!! :-x  :-(

This video i'm working on is much
better than the other 2 new vids i have!!!
but i'm feeling too lazy to finish it  :-(  :-?                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SPK on September 30, 2003, 10:40:08 AM
lol @ being too lazy...

You know u have a lot of work to do to catch up wit ppl like Guru and dem u know...:P                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Zero on September 30, 2003, 01:55:40 PM
Quote
lol @ being too lazy...

You know u have a lot of work to do to catch up wit ppl like Guru and dem u know...:P

Umm....i dont think i could ever catch up with those guys :-(
Grrrr :-x                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Lovyan on October 01, 2003, 05:42:42 PM
There'll be regulations posted as the time is coming up.                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SPK on October 04, 2003, 06:08:33 PM
zero, have some faith in yuor work, and keep at it...

It won't take much for you to get as good as the rest of them....once oyu have the artistic capacity for such work....                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Zero on October 04, 2003, 10:40:22 PM
Quote
zero, have some faith in yuor work, and keep at it...

It won't take much for you to get as good as the rest of them....once oyu have the artistic capacity for such work....

In My dreams :sad:                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SPK on October 04, 2003, 10:43:00 PM
Soldier!!!

If you give up hope and determination on this....then don't ever bother trying...

Give your all or give nothing.                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Zero on October 04, 2003, 11:02:04 PM
I dont want to be better than anyone or anything..:-|
i just want to make my videos and
as long as people like them i'm a-okay :-)
and i could never give it my all..i mean i'm Zero thatz what i do! :-|                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SPK on October 04, 2003, 11:06:23 PM
lol ok

It doesn't matter if you do better than them....once you know that you put your top work on the line....

just entering is indicative enough that you have enough strength as is...:)                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SHiZZ on October 05, 2003, 08:43:50 PM
Umm I may be entering



SO I may have to back out as Judge, I'd support Papa Smurf's nomination                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SPK on October 06, 2003, 05:27:31 PM
Ok i'm cool with that...

So then WHO is the head judge???                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Sekei on October 08, 2003, 04:38:18 PM
I got some amvs i made.. Could i enter them ?
There only 3 of them..                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SPK on October 08, 2003, 06:30:17 PM
yes u can witchblade....

Enter all 3 if you so wish...the more the better...:)                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Zero on October 08, 2003, 07:21:09 PM
I cant wait to see all the new videos!!
YEAH!!!  :sly:                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SPK on October 08, 2003, 07:30:33 PM
oh you know 3 videos are required if you want to be considered for best overall AMV creator...:)                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Zero on October 08, 2003, 08:46:15 PM
Huh....3 videos...?
I only have 2 good..new vidoes.....
the 3rd one is lame.....what the heck am i gonna do......?                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SPK on October 11, 2003, 10:19:04 AM
wellll....if that's the case...

Get working on a 3rd good AMV...

What else can I say?                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Zero on October 11, 2003, 10:53:20 AM
thanks alot........... :neutral:                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SPK on October 11, 2003, 10:59:39 AM
hey you still have time u know...

We haven't even called a final date for the competition yet...so get cracking!!!                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Guru on October 21, 2003, 01:32:42 PM
Great to see all the interest.
I've been harrased by some people to extend it from Anime to anything, but i don't think we have the resources to really judge Movie music videoes yet.  However, we have no problem Demoing them.

Okay so 5 Judges.  So Far we have Lovyan, SPk and Papasmurf.. two more to find..  Will put up a first draft of regulations for you all to critique. Date?  Well, its Mid october...we could go for a christmas competetion (i'm liking this)...or  hold off till next year... to encourage more people to submit...
We could have the finals on the big screen at the Outback :D                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SPK on October 21, 2003, 06:48:41 PM
hmmmm

I'm up for it....sonn enough i think we should have a meeting of the judges...real or online...                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SPK on October 28, 2003, 08:14:42 PM
OK ppl...

At this point, we have 3 judges...

I want to have an online meeting of all judges, by next week Friday, preferably in the evening, about 9pm or so on MSN...to discuss judging criteria, and finalising entry dates and judging locations and dates....

Thank you...*pulls loudspeaker from ear after picking up extremely loud feedback...:P*                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Crixx_Creww on October 29, 2003, 09:31:46 AM
um i think christmas sounds like a good time

in part because thats when iam coming and i wanna enter 3 vids as well

2 naturo and one kenshin

and iam gonna try and make atleast 3 that i wont be entering

one for scrapped princess  and iam not sure wat the others gonna be but i have song ideas so iam going with those.                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Anonymous on October 29, 2003, 09:57:49 AM
need more judges?
hmmm....
if push comes to shove
i am offering my name up....UmIiruka that is ..                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Shogun on October 29, 2003, 12:07:28 PM
i'm honestly thinking of not entering this AMVC, and being a judge.

i saw some of touya's new stuff, blew me out the water! I don't think I can top that!!                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Anonymous on October 29, 2003, 12:10:42 PM
but then u shall be baised wont u shogun                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Shogun on October 29, 2003, 12:23:02 PM
I see where you are comming from Umi, but if you reall think of it, for the last AMVC, some of the judges had seen some of the videos before hand as well.                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SHiZZ on October 29, 2003, 01:12:56 PM
I am gonna go back to Judging.

My videos are giving hell for me to even open.

So I will judge.                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Anonymous on October 29, 2003, 01:18:45 PM
Quote
I am gonna go back to Judging.

My videos are giving hell for me to even open.

So I will judge.


can i judge also too ???
also shogun i think u can enter ur vids
no matter how well done touya's are
never short sell urself                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SHiZZ on October 29, 2003, 01:42:46 PM
SHould be able 2 I think if we both judge we will have the 5 judges needed                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Anonymous on October 29, 2003, 02:07:50 PM
*SPK posting here under Umi's Account*

OK ppl, we have the 5 judges, so I want to officially have the judges meeting online @ 9pm next Friday on MSN...

If you're not online without good reason, you would be considered to have opted yourself out as being a judge from this competition...so you better be there.                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SPK on October 29, 2003, 03:40:13 PM
Ah it's better to use your own account...

As i said, a no-show next Friday is considered as a withdrawl from the competition...

I already have permission from Umiiruka to be exempted from the meeting, as he will not be able to be online at that time.

Thus, he will abide with our decisions, and will be informed by myself as to the decisions taken at the meeting.

So, I expect to see Lovyan, Shizz and Papasmurf online next Friday @ 9pm...                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Shogun on October 29, 2003, 04:00:28 PM
yeah lets get this thing underway!!
and once again.......................are we gonna get prizes this time? :P                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Shogun on October 29, 2003, 04:04:41 PM
yeah lets get this thing underway!!
and once again.......................are we gonna get prizes this time? :P                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SPK on October 29, 2003, 09:46:54 PM
...patience Shogie boy...

All that shall be discussed in the meeting...                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SPK on November 05, 2003, 08:21:05 PM
Reminder:

All judges to meet on MSN for Friday @ 9pm...

that is all...:)                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SPK on November 07, 2003, 10:34:54 PM
OK people, here are the official *relatively* details for the competition...

The 2nd GATT AMV competition will be held on January 24th, 2004.

Prizes will be given in the category for overall performance for 1st, 2nd and 3rd, for trophies and/or cash or vouchers...

There will be a limit of 5 amvs per competitor, with the only stipulation being a minimum length of 2 minutes per AMV, and no restrictions as to the content of the song...however for the anime, it will be advised that tasteful nudity may be allowed, but not hentai...:P

There are going to be 5 categories for this competition...

Action
Comdey
Dramatic/Romance
Viewer's Choice
The AMV Challenge

For the AMV challenge, any competitor can submit an AMV done to an anime that the judges choose...
For this competition, the chosen anime is...

Naruto :)

Thus, if you do not have the footage, it will be made available as soon as possible to GATT HQ and SnS for competitors ONLY (you will have to recieve permission from the judges before recieving them)...most likely they will be available from the following week from today...

The competition will be using the same criteria for judging as in the previous competition, based upon suitability, impact, direction and editing.

The deadline for ALL entries will be on January 15th, 2004...so you people have more than enough time to get your work finished...

Also, credits for all entries must be placed in each AMV, otherwise you run the risk of having that entry as being null and void for the competition.

Your entries must be given to any of the judges for the competition before the aforementioned date:

i.e:

SPK (head judge)
Shizz
Lovyan
Papasmurf
Umiiruka...


So that's all for now, more details to be put up later...

So good luck to all the AMV makers out there, let's see your skills for the new year, and get cracking!!! :)8)                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Osiris on November 08, 2003, 07:22:10 AM
Hey What If I Made an AMV wit Miscellaneous anime ??                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SPK on November 08, 2003, 09:50:36 AM
that will be allowed, once you know what category to classify it as...:)                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SPK on January 04, 2004, 01:14:57 PM
Just a reminder, 11 days to the deadline for entries for the competition, I hope u all finished preparing your work for it :)                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Zero on January 04, 2004, 09:56:35 PM
i aint finished preparing my work.....
11 days!!
good grief..
i'm gonna have to stay up all night yes...                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Shogun on January 05, 2004, 04:34:44 PM
steups i vex, i didn't get a chance to do a naruto video :(                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SPK on January 05, 2004, 07:47:06 PM
*sigh*...this making me wonder who is entering for the competition now...cuz Guru not entering most likely now...Shogie outta here unless he leave some AMVs somewhere, Touya is nowhere in sight...so it makes me wonder who's goin up for this one :-?                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Guru on January 08, 2004, 08:46:35 AM
actually where can we source custom made trophies / medals?                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Anonymous on January 08, 2004, 10:26:16 AM
ask shizz
he will know                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SPK on January 08, 2004, 02:14:54 PM
yea shizz is supposed to be sourcing the trophies and stuff :)                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Heady on January 08, 2004, 04:12:59 PM
um fellas

wat's this AMV ting been hearing about this for a while now, making a anime movie or something?

it sounds interesting, how u go about this?

i'm really good @ creative stuff! sounds likie creativity plays a part.                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SPK on January 08, 2004, 06:40:05 PM
see one of the other threads in the Showcase section, I think the name of it was "Hey you guys..." started by New Era Outlaw...you could get a little info...

But largely, u just need the base footage and music you want to work with, some video editing software, and the rest is just up to yuh madd skills...*or lack of it :P*                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Shogun on January 08, 2004, 09:39:35 PM
Hey SPK i left behind one video to be entered into the AMVC!!!!
i hope you like it                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SPK on January 08, 2004, 11:53:40 PM
ok cool...once Cragen gets it to either Umi or Smurf or one of dem before next thursday, yuh cool :)                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Zero on January 09, 2004, 01:23:05 AM
i made 6 videos.....but i can only enter 3
because i dont have the others right now...
DAMMIT!

..maybe i wont even enter.... :sad:
this sucks                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SPK on January 09, 2004, 01:40:16 PM
well 3 is enough to be up for the best overall anime video creator... so if you have 3 u can enter them :)                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Shogun on January 12, 2004, 01:23:40 AM
ah phooey

i wanted to make some more vids :(                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SPK on January 12, 2004, 11:50:32 AM
well that's no scene Shogie, u did what you could, and that will be very much welcomed :)                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SPK on January 12, 2004, 07:05:34 PM
REMINDER TO ALL COMPETITORS!!!

All AMVs must be submitted to an AMV judge by Thursday for the LATEST!!!

So leave your AMV entries @ either HQ or SnS/Java for the judges to pick up...

If your entries are not in after Thursday, they will not be considered for the competition, so make sure that they are sent in before then :)

That's all, carry on people, and hope you've done your works already :P                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Zero on January 14, 2004, 07:29:13 PM
who entering that shyt?                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SPK on January 18, 2004, 12:08:49 PM
Okay people, due to unforseen circumstances, we have been forced to extend the deadline of entries for the competition.

The new deadline for entries will be given shortly, so all those who didn't enter AMVs yet, you all still have a chance to do so, so see if you all can enter some of your works :)                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Zero on January 23, 2004, 07:26:09 AM
Yay!
But I still dont have all my videos yet...                    
Title: Next AMV competition....
Post by: TriniXaeno on January 23, 2004, 02:07:48 PM
lol

Zero, men in HQ does still be playing your vidoes... doh lapse.

bring it cometh.                    
Title: Re: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Trinitus on September 27, 2006, 08:58:46 PM
HOw do i post my AMV that i just made?
Title: Re: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Crixx_Creww on September 28, 2006, 10:26:11 AM
use de media gallery and add it there
then post a link in the forum
Title: Re: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Red Paradox on November 11, 2006, 06:13:58 PM
ummm...when is the next AMV competition
Title: Re: Next AMV competition....
Post by: SPK on November 11, 2006, 10:32:07 PM
...good question.... -_-
Title: Re: Next AMV competition....
Post by: Red Paradox on November 13, 2006, 11:13:55 AM
I had some cool AMVs that I made. but......If there is a competition...then I would like to enter...so I could win some CASH!!!
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