Marvel vs. Capcom 1 Sweatage! (NEW DATE! Saturday 10th January, 2009)

[Q]

No problem. In fact, I'm in the middle of producing a vid showcasing local arcade talent as a counter to all those who post console glitches on YouTube and expect props. My question is out of all that they show, how many of them can do those under COMBAT conditions? That is why I was ESPECIALLY impressed with your Megaman/Roll Firewall. They can barely do that online and you've made it practical gameplay. I intend to totally shatter all cosmetic combo vids with REAL local talent, hence the caption after my Ryu vid.

I'm aware of two things that you can do: Real-world recording i.e. arcade + camcorder or Household recording i.e. emulator + video capture software. I made my MUGEN vids using the latter method and recently started using the former, hence the more rudimentary appearence of my MvC vids.

The latter is easy. Just get the right software (I use "Snagit 8") and do your stuff while the PC records the screen output then edit it (I use Windows Movie Maker).

The former is a little harder in that you obviously can't fight and record at once so I fight where I'm known and I entrust a close associate with my digi-cam to record while I fight. In a place where they know you and with a CLOSE associate (Feel free to even bring a friend), it's less likely to get stolen so you can execute your techniques worry-free.

I hope I was able to offer you some practical insight. I was actually going to invite you and the other Alpha males to appear as a highlight on my vid. More's the pity that I'll miss the 12th. Even so, enjoy it and I hope that my information was helpful.

As for my squads... I knew for YEARS that my Megaman was second only to yours so it would've been a waste to pit him against you. I tried to find cracks in that armour, hence my meditation on Spider-Man. I hesitated because I knew that once you adapted, he would be useless... Then time ran out and I was stuck with him and although it worked and I won, he was USELESS upon your return. I'm not a big Spider-Man player but his Assault super after a sweep was a big incentive and the fast, multi-directional Maximum Spider was a HUGE plus... At the time.
Gambit and Jin were just attempts to do as much damage as soon as possible but they just didn't get the openings they needed and your team size was largely responsible for that. Imagine... A Blodia Punch in a combo and Jin misses Roll COMPLETELY... I DO HOPE you remember that. 
I also tried to use Strider's speed but I didn't count on Megaman being quick enough to actually interrupt his combos from a defensive position. I also tried that, plus some reach with Chun-Li but I still couldn't crack that shell in time, hence all the time-outs. Ryu had his moments with the Uppercut Super but you didn't leave enough openings for that course of action to be 100% dependable. In any case, his greatest strength is his Shinkuu Hadou Ken but with Megaman's VARIOUS multi-hit projectiles, a MUCH BIGGER projectile Super and greater mobility, all I could hope to do was some well-placed, well-timed damage, hence my first win.

It may not have appeared so at the time but all of this occurred to me during our very first match that day. I may have gotten a little unfit but as you can see, the mind is still sharp. Real fighters use the brain as well as the brawn.

Then again... That's just my opinion. 


If there's any more info you need, feel free to write.


Peace, strength and respect;
Q.

[rb]

to be honest "real local talent" in mvc1 pales in comparison to foreign own. Ultima could probably shed some light on this better than I can. Trinis seem to be bound by "scrubs honor" (ie no throwing, no infinites, no anything that helps them win efficiently) which is why we usually get destroyed otherwise, of course there are always exceptions.

MVC1 is on GGPO, I was running some pretty lagless vampire savior on that yesterday vs some dude from the states. NO LAG whatsoever, also got my ass whooped, it was great

[Q]

You know, rb, somebody came around me with that same talk in the Mall. I personally HATE constant throwing. I see it as a sign of weakness. You are so pathetic and devoid of skill that you HAVE to stick-and-grab. NEO grabbed me a couple of times (LITERALLY a couple, twice out of TEN whole matches) when last we fought and I was actually flattered. It wasn't his WHOLE strategy and my defense was THAT GOOD while other ppl LIVE by this mindless rhetoric "Wat grab in d game for den?"
This same individual came to challenge me in the Mall with that same stupid mentality and you know what I did? I SCRUBBED the scrub's ass, even in front of his kid. I was MOST honourable and MOST BRUTAL. That's the difference between myself and the rest. I don't have to play like an ass to kick ass. Any one who has EVER faced me can testify to that. You shouldn't equate a lack of honour with skill. I've seen foreign talent. NONE of them would gain TWO WINS against any local assassin, even with honour intact.


Consider that an open challenge. I stake my "scrubs honour" on it.
*Throwing gauntlet...*

[Ultima]

Q:

> I personally HATE constant throwing. I see it as a sign of weakness.

That's the kind of mentality that has kept - and to an extent, still keeps - Trinidad behind the times. Self-imposed rules that have no bearing on reality (there's no "TOO MANY THROWS" penalty in the game) keeps the player from progressing forward, and they end up getting crushed by players who do not impose such silly rules on themselves.

rb: "local talent"

Local talent in MvC1 isn't bad. Not great, but not bad. They seem to be better with weaker characters (or at least, too many people swear by Spider-Man, and he's terrible in MvC), and I haven't seen anyone with a good War Machine, RV, Wolverine, or an especially good Strider as yet.

[New Era Outlaw]

to be honest "real local talent" in mvc1 pales in comparison to foreign own. Ultima could probably shed some light on this better than I can. Trinis seem to be bound by "scrubs honor" (ie no throwing, no infinites, no anything that helps them win efficiently) which is why we usually get destroyed otherwise, of course there are always exceptions.

I'm afraid he does have a point there.
As much as I personally loathe people who consistently throw, one thing you do have to realise is that it is, after all, a part of the game.

Take Wolverine, for example.
Part of his strategy involves poking your opponent into the defensive, and chucking him out of it when he withdraws into his shell. In other words, some aspect of high-level Wolverine play involves knowing when to throw.

Then again, to those bothered by throws, there are always Throw Escapes and Tech Hits. I remember whiplash's friend being a pro at escaping being thrown.

In any case, one thing everybody has to keep in mind is that throws are there to prevent people from being overly defensive and just blocking everything you throw at him. Without throws, you know what the game will turn into? Killer Instinct.


As for 'scrub's honour', I have one seriously funny story for you regarding that.
Some guy came up against me, and the second the match started, he started getting beaten soundly by Mega Man. The guy actually threatened me to ease up on him, and told me crap about 'how he runs this arcade' and 'blah blah blah'. I then told him flat out, 'NO.' and continued to whip him. The guy stormed out angry, and everybody couldn't help but laugh at him for not knowing how to block a low attack. Ah, pity the poor scrubby Noobasaurus Rex, in his own natural habitat.

(ahem)
Anyway, long story short, it is that kind of mentality that does and is holding back us Trinis from being supreme hardcore Gods in the games that we play. We have got to be ready for anything that comes our way, regardless of how cheesy the strategies we face are. Unless it's something along the lines of the 'Vanishing Gambit' glitch that can really be impossible to beat, any strategy that has ever been conceived has a hole in it.

Local talent in MvC1 isn't bad. Not great, but not bad. They seem to be better with weaker characters (or at least, too many people swear by Spider-Man, and he's terrible in MvC), and I haven't seen anyone with a good War Machine, RV, Wolverine, or an especially good Strider as yet.

This is true. I can't tell you how many times I've:

a) Faced somebody who includes either Spiderman or Ryu in their team;
b) Got knocked down by FK only to roll out when the person wrings for Crawler Assault;
c) Used Flower Bomb with Roll to stop a Maximum Spider dead (Q can tell you guys a funny story involving that);
d) Walked under a leaping Spiderman with Roll to nail him when said person thinks he's going to use his high priority FP or FK is hit me while I'm grounded.

Three out of those four things I do on a regular basis with Roll, who is a pretty good fighter against Spidey for those precise reasons.

On the topic of Strider, have you faced off against Analyst as yet, Ultima?
His Strider is one of the more keen ones I've seen in Trinidad to date.
As a matter of fact, he, like myself, is one of the infamous "Consort Mall Graduates", so you know he plays for keeps.

MVC1 is on GGPO, I was running some pretty lagless vampire savior on that yesterday vs some dude from the states. NO LAG whatsoever, also got my ass whooped, it was great  

You have got to introduce me to it sometime. I feel that, above all else, the next step for me in terms of improving myself is to take on some of those bastards online, and see what I've got against them.

[Ultima]

NEO:

Dunno who Analyst is. I've never come across a Strider that is as good as mine (well, at my peak I suppose) here, far less on the level of CTF (note that what we do and what CTF isn't much different; they're just flat out better, though the highest levels also use guard breaks and a lot of uncombos, which I've yet to see anyone doing here). I used to get 30 win streaks in Colsort Mall with Strider/GWM, once upon a time.

On a side note, there is never a time when Wolverine does not want to throw. There's a whole style of play with Wolvie that involves nothing but jumping in and throwing.air throwing anything that moves (because, stupidly enough, Wolverine has the longest throw range in the game).

re: GGPO

Be warned: There is slight lag in GGPO, so there are still some tactics that only work online.

Also, watch out for 190812308102938092 DWMs.

[Q]

Although I understand what you ppl are saying, how is it then that I can still perform with my honour intact? I already understand that not everyone is cut from the same moral cloth, in gaming or in life. DO NOT at the same time expect me to view you as a skilled contender if you turn MvC into a WRESTLING MATCH. I won't complain during the fight but that doesn't mean I didn't notice. Honestly, that just gives me more incentive to PUNISH you. Gentlemen, this is a talk that I have walked and many a cheapster has fallen at my feet. Simply put, NORMAL THROWS REQUIRE NO SKILL. Infinites in MvC aren't as easy to set up as in Xmen vs SF, grab moves a-la Zangief/Morrigan take hand-speed and a sharp, steady head to pull off, air throws at least require some timing but I repeat, NORMAL THROWS REQUIRE NO SKILL. If you then want to make that a strategy, fine. That's your perogative. It does not change the fact that your resulting strategy will have the tactical depth of a saucer of milk.

And NEO is right. My face alone spoke VOLUMES when I Max-Spidered into a bloody bouquet. That didn't change the fact that I had a mission to complete. En lieu of that, RIDICULOUS throwing doesn't change the fact that I still have a battle to finish and such self-imposed standards can potentially hinder more than help. I understand the point you guys are making.

What I'm saying is, if I can kick butt and fight with the best of them without what I perceive to be lowering my standards, why should I then betray such a battle ethic? Am I not still a worthy adversary? Just read my analysis of my and NEO's fight. I can do more than just mindless grabbing and still win. Albeit it's HARDER considering NEO just got back from the Shaolin Temple of wherever he disappeared to but that just gives me more reason to push myself harder and rise to meet him. *Me eh fraid DAT.* Consider it the Naruto complex.

I have an idea: Friday is my off day from work. I'd LOVE to fight ANY of you. Do your worst. If you can BEAT me into submission, if you can PROVE that my honour is just a weight I need not carry, I'll concede. I'll even record the fights and post it for all to see.

Consider that an open challenge to ALL of you; rb, Ultima, ALL of you. Not you, though, NEO. We've fought and both you and JD know my style. I feel no need to prove this to you two (or should I?). When next WE fight, it will be for the test of the battle itself, not to determine the validity of my fighting philosophy. I'd like to think I've still proven myself even with my *ahem* scrub's honour.

This is different. This will either solidify or shatter my entire nindo. So, rb and Ultima... What say you?

It may seem a bit over-the-top and unduly intense but this has been my fighting way for ALL aspects of my life; Work, school, martial arts, relationships, church, EVERYTHING. Pride, honour, respect; how I fight, why I fight - I've NEVER had to question my nindo nor has it ever been questioned... Until now. I like to answer questions. Now answer mine - Do you accept?

My email is in my profile and I can be reached at 780-7344 or 486-0503. Just say the word.


Spine longer dan twine,
Q.

[Q]

BTW, I'm also a KI 2 player and even KI has throws. As much as I expand my horizons, I'm just a Ryu fan at heart. I only leave him out when he's tactically incapable. I myself like the underdogs as opposed to the gaming whores that everybody frequents i.e. Spidey, Wolverine, Morrigan to a lesser extent.

[rb]

honor vs playing to win, i dunno about you, but I will do what I need to in order to get the win, once it is within the rules of the game, in other words if its tournament legal it will be fair game to me, regardless of what the other player thinks. Call it whatever you want, a win is a win. I could care less if my strategy was akin to a pile of crap, if its getting the job done then why should I bother.

re: throws
throw escapes have been in everything since like super turbo, if you can't throw escape or tech hit at least, it makes it harder, but the mechanic is there.

re: challenge
Sorry I don't play MVC1, I always did hate the game, I do play 2 on occassion though. Ultima will have to take you up on that if he so chooses. Let me tell you what I do play so can probably decide an alternative. Dunno if you do the PS2 thing either, doesnt matter to me really cause I got my own stick.

3rd Strike, Guilty Gear XX Accent Core, KOF98 & XI, MVC2, VS, Alpha 2, will dabble in Alpha 3, Rage of the Dragons, Melty Blood, er a set of games no ones probably ever heard, games I can't remember right now.

The ball is in your court.

[Q]

Fair enough. I can't lay down a fierce challenge then PLUCK you from your element. At least I know you won't be at a disadvantage. That's cool.
I've played 3rd Strike but I prefer 2nd Impact. Still, that could happen. I'm VERY rusty in KOF 98. I more play 2002 now for the flashy DMs. I'm luvin Alpha 3 right now. ROTD could happen too. It's not one of my favourites but I always liked Double Dragon so any extension has my attention. I CAN'T STAND MvC 2. I think the genre has come too far since Xmen vs SF to breed a game with so many bugs. To me it's little more than a cheese-fest. Still, I dabble. I'm a combo fan so I find the super cancels attractive.

The most feasible that I can see happening is Alpha 3 or MvC 2 in St James. That could happen any day this week. How's Thursday from say 5:30?

[Jdcrys_Shinkuu]

Believe it or not folks, i am at a total loss as to who Q is....i am supposed to be in trincity mall this saturday why dont you come show yourselves there i promise it will be fun

[Qloxx]

ok the 12th in trincity mall, what time where ah go definitly duck out of work to be there.

[Q]

JD... I'm the Ryu who likes to change clothes mid-combo. When you see me, you'll remember me.

[Jdcrys_Shinkuu]

lemme see lp > fp > change to akuma > double super? thats you? lol small world hoss now i remember (given if you are one who plays this combo to death)...

[New Era Outlaw]

OPTIMUS RYU.....he transforms AND rolls out.

[Q]

lol Thank you NEO. Indeed. VERY refreshing to know that ppl actually read YouTube descriptions.


Leave it be, JD. Ppl are starting to take credit for what's not theirs so I have to make sure I have it cleaner than they do. How would you feel if someone referred to you as a WM/GoldWM clone? These young cubs have no respect for the elder wolves of the Colsort pack.

That's another reason I started uploading videos- COPYRIGHTING. That's a practice I recommend you guys adopt, btw.

JD with WM/Gold WM, NEO with the Firewall crew, the most practical Megaman/Roll I know of, my obsession with perfecting Ryu and other noteworthy fighters that I may not even know of... We have all made some mark by what we do and how we do it. I intend to make mine a lasting one. I think we all should. We each display a talent that warrants no less.
From the moment we are born, we begin to die and immortality is as simple as doing something that you alone can or that you alone do best.

[rb]

Q I must admit, I love reading these sermon like posts and I do hope they continue.

couple things though -

- You can't exactly copyright something thats been discovered aeons ago elsewhere especially in a game like MVC1, where the only new stuff being discovered is new ways to infinite mcs all over the screen.
- JD is a WM/GWM Clone sadly.. thats the team that led to the downward spiral of MVC1 in 99/2000, that 1 team broke the game to the point no one cared anymore, it is the best team in the game as pointed out by Ultima.

In Guilty Gear XX AC I play Eddie, and as far as I know locally I am the only person playing Eddie that can do the things I do (unblockable combos into instant kill etc), never would I copyright that as my own as it's been known since day 2 of the games release. Yeah I'm the only person doing it, but its not mine.

The only way now to really copyright something is to discover it before anyone else and then make it known to the masses before it is spread around by someone else.  Kinda reminds me of when GGXX Slash came out and while playing around for a couple days I noticed Order Sol may have had a dust loop variation so off I went to irc and lo and behold they were already discussing setups.

These "younger cubs" have access to a whole boatload of more information than you older guys did and believe me we make good use of it.

[New Era Outlaw]

The time's drawing near, folks.
What I want to know is....is there anyone who could walk with a camcorder or whatnot to record matches? There is a certain scrub online that doesn't believe me when I told him about my competitiveness with Roll, and I'd really like to shut him up.

[Q]

lol I don't usually talk that much. I'm only saying what I honestly believe. I'm glad you appreciate it.

The combos that I have on YouTube right now were combos that I've been doing since before the turn of the millenium. It's only now that I'm able to record upload them. My Megaman combo is now a decade old and I made sure to check EVERY MvC combo vid for Ryu. Believe me, it's MINE. I GUARANTEE YOU that you will not see Ryu change > Uppercut Super/Double Team in any other combo vid on YouTube. Anywhere in this country alone you see that combo, that's where I've been. I always tell ppl "Feel free to use it. Just remember the address." All I want is my props.

See for yourself. I recorded this at the Mall: http://youtube.com/watch?v=s7R-XhxzGHI

The best I've seen with Ryu is the Triple Super Spin Kick combo. I took it and improved it but never claimed it (Conscience forbids). I've done all these things in Trincity already. I can assure you that there is no more proficient Ryu than mine.

That's another difference between the old school and the new. I paid my dues and learnt Ryu the hard way: Trial and error. Anybody can "Google" a game or a character and copy but it takes something extra to learn a player i.e. LP does this or MK is good air defense or this move makes for a good counter or things like that. Anybody who has ever consciously PUT IN TIME to totally learn a char knows what I'm saying. The dedication, discipline, occasional heartbreak but resulting satisfaction of knowing that you did this. Even if you didn't do it first, you did it on your own. That's a satisfaction WELDED to your psyche, never to fade away.

It's easy to improve, even easier to copy but I guarantee you will know no greater self-satisfaction than that of work well done with your own two hands.

Meditate on that.

[Q]

Good morning NEO. That's what I'm talking about. Let the world know your name. Love you or loathe you, no one can deny what you can do once they see it with their own two eyes.. Consider it a resume. lol