Author Topic: 64-bit vs. 32-bit  (Read 7427 times)

Offline W1nTry

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64-bit vs. 32-bit
« on: January 03, 2008, 02:17:42 PM »
An interesting article that starts off sounding like a driver/software related one and shows its correlation to memory
Quote
More Bad Drivers on the Information Superhighway
By Larry Seltzer
January 2, 2008

Opinion: To prevent bad device drivers from making the system unstable, Microsoft artificially limits the amount of memory available to Windows.

It's as true of any operating system as it is of Windows, but Windows gets a harder time for it: Bad device drivers make for a bad computing experience.

Device drivers are effectively system software. Very often it's hard to tell the difference between a device driver problem and a Windows bug, and this is certainly the case for the non-technical. The system can become unreliable or unresponsive. Devices and programs can seem slow or the quality of multimedia features can degrade.

Device drivers need physical access to the hardware, so they have to be trusted by the operating system. This means they have to be trusted not only to respect security measures—a malicious device driver has access to anything and everything on your computer—but it's trusted not to muck things up generally.

PointerFrom market share shifting to the shift to notebooks, the world of desktop computing is always in flux. Read more in our special report State of the Desktop.

How bad can it get? If you're running 32-bit Vista and you have 4GB of RAM in your system, you're paying the price for it, whether you have bad drivers or not.

Thirty-two-bit versions of Windows Vista are limited to 3,120MB of effective memory, even if the system has the full 4GB (4,096MB) that 32-bitness should allow. This is intentionally done to protect against what appear to be common errors in device drivers.

The problem is that memory in 32-bit x86 systems is complicated. It's not just a 4GB block of RAM. First, hardware usually reserves big chunks of memory near the top of the address space, limiting usable memory to about the 3.1GB that Windows allows.

But wait, what about PAE (Physical Address Extensions), the standard that puts 36 address pins on those same processors? Surely that means I can use up to (let me find my old HP calculator) ... a lot more than that? 64GB? Yes, but only in theory.

Originally, Windows XP supported all 4GB in systems that had it, but it turned out to be problematic. Microsoft noticed blue screens and crashes.

PAE doesn't change the fact that Windows is a 32-bit operating system. Pointers in programs don't suddenly get 36 bits in them just because the system has PAE memory in it. I'm sure other operating systems have similar issues.

PAE is a paging system, sort of like the old EMS (expanded memory system) from real-mode x86 days. In the case of PAE, page tables are used to map a different 4GB space into different processes. So because of the reserved areas of address space, on a system with 4GB of RAM, about 0.9GB of it will be above the 4GB physical limit.

This means that the physical addresses of that memory will have more than 32 bits in them. Because of memory-mapped I/O, device drivers often need to be aware of this fact and account for it, and guess what: They often don't. Sometimes they just assume that addresses are 32 bits.

The 64-Bit Desktop

For this reason, Windows just chops off the upper part of the memory on 32-bit versions. In fact, on Windows Server versions there are similar restrictions, except on the Advanced SKUs. To use all of your memory you need 64-bit Windows, and then you run into the fact that lots of drivers just aren't written for it.

Look for this to be an increasingly annoying problem if memory continues to get cheaper, which, over the long term, it's bound to do. The move to 64-bit operating systems on the desktop wasn't supposed to be necessary for technical reasons, but it may turn out to be so just so that we get our money's worth out of our hardware.

The lesson here, Ram is cheap, we want LOTS of it (esp Vista) but 4GB just doesn't make sense on a 32-bit OS... however the 64-bit variant has driver issues... woes...

Carigamers

64-bit vs. 32-bit
« on: January 03, 2008, 02:17:42 PM »

Offline Beomagi

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Re: 64-bit vs. 32-bit
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2008, 05:08:37 AM »
Just as i'm thinking of migrating to xp 64
:P random text doesn't go out of date does it?

Offline shivadee

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Re: 64-bit vs. 32-bit
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2008, 12:23:45 PM »
I R 64!!!!

Offline W1nTry

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Re: 64-bit vs. 32-bit
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2008, 12:39:54 PM »

Offline Red Paradox

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Re: 64-bit vs. 32-bit
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2009, 09:58:13 AM »
ok wintry I know this topic is old like last tuesday's cheese.. but I'm curious, especially since I'm getting into this IT thing.
I built my computer last week and I currently use 2 GB of DDR2 RAM on Windows XP 32-bit edition. However I have an additional 2 GB RAM stick andI was told to achieve this I should go to Windows XP 64-bit or use Vista (sigh) the thing is too I have a copy of Windows 7 64 bit edition but I hate the fact that a lot of the games don't wrk due to the operating system (example Need For Speed Most Wanted, yes I know it's an old game but I love it nonetheless)
So just as an avid gamer, graphic designer and future IT specialist (lol so long as I successfully complete my BsC) I wanna know, should I use Windows XP 64 bit and face driver related isssues....or should I use a totally new OS to support 4 GB of RAM.
Oh as a side note I wanted to put in 2 more 4 Gig RAM cards due to the fact that my Motherboard can support 8GB max

Thanks


Carigamers

Re: 64-bit vs. 32-bit
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2009, 09:58:13 AM »

Offline Nephilim

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Re: 64-bit vs. 32-bit
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2009, 10:37:54 AM »
run both.

you can keep the xp for the older games and run 7 for the extra ram in your work environment, the switching might be annoying but at least you don't have to sacrifice anything

also why not before jumping the gun...just drop in the extra 2gb and see if you like how it works...if you like it, you save yourself alot of time and effort. you wont recodnize all of the 4GB (you might pull off up to 3.5 or so) but you avoid the labour involved with switching to another OS and the problems they bring untill you ready for a stink 8GB AND you get more ram for the timing, the loss of 512MB ram would be an acceptable loss
also are u using 1 2GB stick now or 2 1GBs

if you do alot of graphic work and use large files your gonna love 8GB, depending on how large the file, you will notice a significant improvement in reponsiveness because your system will grind page less

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Re: 64-bit vs. 32-bit
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2009, 10:43:25 AM »
I use a 2 GB DDR Ram stick
and I'll take your advice...I was thinking maybe I should get another hard drive in a timing and install Windows Vista or 7 so I'll have both OS' on the system but hey thanks for the advice man greatly appreciate


Offline Nephilim

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Re: 64-bit vs. 32-bit
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2009, 10:56:46 AM »
I use a 2 GB DDR Ram stick

if this means 1 stick of 2GB ram then you should also notice a speed improvement with the 2nd stick, as your currently running in single channel

Offline Red Paradox

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Re: 64-bit vs. 32-bit
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2009, 11:06:17 AM »
interesting
I'll keep that in mind.
Thanks again


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Re: 64-bit vs. 32-bit
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2009, 11:08:49 AM »
Also I watched your profile discriptor and I see you're using 8 Gigs of Ram. What OS are you using if you don't me asking


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Re: 64-bit vs. 32-bit
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2009, 11:30:11 AM »
Hmm I late to this party XD. I concur with Neph, dual boot iymc. You could run different HDs as well, that's not a scene. Just make sure you have your partition sizes correct, as games tend to take up ALOT of space, so I suggest having a drive for ur OSes and another for storage. You CAN install ur games to the storage partition if you wish, though i'd advise you use the primary OS partitions. Up to you really. Also go with 8GB one time, RAM or at least DDR2 NOT going to get any cheaper as time goes along AND DDR3 becomes the predominant standard. I recently upgraded and wished I had done so 3 months ago when I could gotten my ram 40USD cheaper O_o

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Re: 64-bit vs. 32-bit
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2009, 11:39:16 AM »
So what OS are you currently using now wintry?
Just for reference


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Re: 64-bit vs. 32-bit
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2009, 11:43:32 AM »
hmm what i took from this is that Flip you going from graphics into IT
and your first step is to go for a degree with Sams?? :(
it too late to get your money back??
Cause i woulda send you straight to sbcs or somewhere to do your MCSE first yes and save you the ultra wastage that is sams.

But about the Ram thing... have you confirmed for certain that the games you want dont work on 7?

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Re: 64-bit vs. 32-bit
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2009, 11:56:20 AM »
Crixx...I'm just adding options to my table...in fact I currently work as a graphic designer so it will always be in my blood
lol

As for the games... try this for size. I installed Need For Speed Most Wanted (old game I know but wanted to install something quick) to test out my graphics (until I got Modern Warfare 2 which I did) and installed Windows 7 32-bit edition by the way.
However the game didn't run at all.
So I went on www.systemrequirementlab.com and I noticed that I had all the specifications and better...but the OS wasn't supported
I tested other games on that site like GTA 4  and I got the same disposition. Now check the heights when I installed Windows XP Pro Edition (SP3 32-bit) all my games worked. I tested Spider-man Web of Shadows, GTA 4 and Modern Warfare 2 (oh and even NFS Most Wanted worked) so yeah...I dunno wats up with Windows 7

Now I was told Windows XP 64 bit can use more than 2 GB of RAM but there are driver issues and so forth, I was studying if I should or should not waste time "acquiring" a copy of Windows XP 64 bit...I dunno


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Re: 64-bit vs. 32-bit
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2009, 12:03:52 PM »
Xp 64 is a pack ah balls, like osx

try running the games in compatibility mode in 7
not a guarantee but if it works, you get best of all worlds.

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Re: 64-bit vs. 32-bit
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2009, 12:21:39 PM »
hmmm...ok
but if I'm to use 8 Gigs of RAM I'll need the 64 bit edition of Windows 7, right?


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Re: 64-bit vs. 32-bit
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2009, 12:21:50 PM »
Also I watched your profile discriptor and I see you're using 8 Gigs of Ram. What OS are you using if you don't me asking

win7 64

I recently upgraded and wished I had done so 3 months ago when I could gotten my ram 40USD cheaper O_o

ent! i would save bout $400

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Re: 64-bit vs. 32-bit
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2009, 12:22:38 PM »
I run Vista 64-bit on meh desktop and all the games I have installed work fine:
Crysis, Crysis Warhead, FarCry 2, Orange box, UT3

Chances are if it runs on Vista it WILL run on 7.

Carigamers

Re: 64-bit vs. 32-bit
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2009, 12:22:38 PM »

 


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